Alhaji Suleiman Muhammed Argungu is a former deputy governor in Kebbi State. In this interview, the chieftain of the All Progressive Congress (APC) spoke on wha he went through in the hands of some ‘super commissioners’ when he was deputy governor, why he didn’t defect to the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) with his boss, Governor Aliero, his refusal to go to the Congress for Progressive Change (CPC) with Muhammadu Buhari, sharing of leadership positions in the APC and plans to dislodge the PDP in 2015.
What are the issues before the APC with regard to the 2015 election?
The issue before the APC now is to ensure there is internal democracy so that those leaving other parties to join it can appreciate it. It would also encourage more people to come to the fold of the party. We are happy that it’s not a regional party. It’s a Nigerian party for all Nigerians. With the leaders we have now I believe there would be internal democracy in the APC. I want to say that it will not be a party that will be dictated to by anybody. It’s a party for everybody; everybody’s idea will be captured to ensure that it succeeds in all ramifications.
Second, we have to ensure that we elect credible leaders. Already, we have interim national leaders. We should quickly have similar ones in all the states and Abuja so that the electorates who have been disturbed by the way the PDP has been leading them and had waited to see such a party like the APC formed won’t be disappointed in us about our organisational seriousness. Those willing to join the APC will be registered as card-carrying members. Once this is done, we would have reduced the fear Nigerians might have concerning good leadership for the party.
In all states, many people are already coming into the APC now that they see that the party is accepted by majority of Nigerians. But we should be very careful that betrayers are not elected or appointed as caretakers in the APC. We must ensure we have credible people who will not at the end of the day betray the party to their PDP or sell their integrity, that of the party or that of the electorate to the PDP.
Don’t you foresee the possibility of crisis emerging among the merged political parties on sharing of leadership positions?
I don’t foresee any crisis because we had all been in one party or the other before the merger. For instance, majority of those from the CPC were from the ANPP. Even from the ACN, there are some of them who were from the ANPP. Some of them from a part of APGA and the DPP were products of the ANPP at one time. So, we all know ourselves. We are all politicians, we belonged to one political party or the other at one time. We know what each and everyone us can do. The fact that we belonged to different merging parties but have now decided to belong to one party means we are determined and ready to take over the control of affairs of the country in the coming elections. Therefore, we must put behind us whatever negative things we might have against one another and forge ahead as one family. I believe the sharing of positions so far is alright, but we should allow for more equity so that the smaller groups in the merging parties will be well represented. Once this is done, whatever fear will be laid to rest.
What are the challenges before the APC?
One challenge now is for the party to go out and mobilise people from all parts of the country to join the APC. There are surely people who are willing to leave their parties to come to the APC. We need to meet them, educate them, sell our manifesto to them and convince them it’s no longer business as usual in leadership. We need to let them know that the manifesto of the party is different from that of the PDP. Once we are able to convince them about what we stand for and what we plan to do, I believe we can overcome this challenge.
What are APC’s chances in the Anambra State governorship election, considering APGA’s hold on the state?
APGA is just a small group, and it is factionalised. The party has two governors. One is already with APC and the other is one leg in APGA and one leg in the PDP. You will realise that the party doesn’t hold water again in Anambra State because its governor has tilted so much towards the ideals of the PDP than those of APGA. Many people in the state do not like this. Governor Rochas Okorocha of Imo state, former governor Achike Udenwa, Senator Chris Ngige and other leaders of the APC in the South east will play significant roles to ensure APC’s victory in the election.
Why did your party give automatic ticket to Senator Ngige? Won’t this cause crisis in the new party?
I’m not aware that automatic ticket was given to Senator Ngige because I know there were other contestants in the APC for the Anambra governorship election. Like I said earlier, we want to ensure there is internal democracy in the APC and the only way we can do this is to be free and fair to every member of the party, irrespective of who they are. I believe there should always be primaries, unless there is otherwise a consensus. Party leaders at the national level and the states will always look at the credentials of aspirants, taking into cognizance the roles each of them had played in building their states and the country’s democracy to ensure that whoever emerges as flag bearer of the party for the governorship election in any state is the right candidate.
It’s being speculated that the APC would zone its presidential candidate to the North. From the line-up - Gen Buhari, Nuhu Ribadu, el-Rufai, Ibrahim Shekarau and Buba Marwa - who is the likely candidate of APC?
It all depends on the electorate. Even if we have many aspirants there won’t be a problem once there is internal democracy. The other aspirants can step down for any of these people you mentioned. Even in the 2011 general elections, we had about three Northerners who contested the presidency and all of them happened to be in the APC now. Malam Nuhu Ribadu of the former ACN; Malam Ibrahim Shekarau, a former ANPP governor and Gen. Mohammed Buhari of the former CPC all contested for the seat in 2011.
Now, there are other people who are likely to be interested in the seat and may come into the fold later. They are Nigerians with proven integrity, people like Buba Marwa, el-Rufai and a chain of others. There are also governors, serving or former. Even from the PDP, they are likely to come into this fold. There are other prominent Nigerians now in the PDP who are likely to come into the party. For instance, it has been said often that the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Malam Aminu Tambuwa may defect from the PDP to the APC to contest the presidency. The APC is a big party and we will welcome them to its fold.
But as I said earlier, it depends on who the candidates are. Many of them may concede their presidential ambition to whoever is unanimously agreed is the best candidate for the election. But for internal democracy to be at play, there may be primaries to elect a presidential candidate for the party when there is no consensus. There are some of us in the party who believe there should be no consensus in choosing who becomes the flagbearer of the APC. There should be primaries so that whoever emerges will know that it’s the entire members of the APC who elect him rather than looking at a group of the party as making him a candidate for the election.
Since you were elected as deputy governor under the platform of the then APP you have remained in the opposition even when your governor defected to the PDP. Why?
I believe in what I believe in. I believe that every responsible person at my age should be principled. Once you are not principled there is little or no difference between you and animals. I believe defection from one party to the other does not help democracy and does not help you as a person. People look at you as someone who only defects when he wants to contest an election, like many politicians now do. If they are not given the ticket to contest in one party, they defect to another party.
What we should do is to build these political parties. We are Nigerians, we know ourselves, we know what each of us can do. We should stay in a political party to build it. That is why all along I believe the number of registered parties is too large because it entails corruption in democracy. I have been in government, I was deputy governor for two terms and I know how governors use smaller political parties to achieve their selfish end during elections.
Now that we have reduced the number, I believe many of them will see reason to come to the APC so that we can reduce the number drastically. This will help us to reduce what I call political corruption in the country to the barest minimum. I just believe I should remain where I’m to ensure I join others to build our party to a stronger one. This was why I remained in ANPP till we merged with other parties to become one great opposition party today.
What were your challenges as deputy governor?
My greatest challenge was that when you are a deputy governor you are the number two citizen of your state and you will be acting in the absence of your governor. But my greatest challenge was that there were ‘super commissioners’ whom the governor considered as more important than me. As deputy governor, I could not instruct them. Even if I did, they wouldn’t take my instructions. They would call the governor even when he was outside the country to take instructions from him. They listened only to the governor, not to me his deputy, even when acting in his absence. If one had not been patient, one would have been messed up by the so-called ‘super commissioners’. Today, these are some of the challenges deputy governors face in the states.
Second, you find that only a few governors improved their deputies economically because they don’t want their deputies to succeed them at the end of their tenure. So, they would ensure their deputies are crippled economically so they can’t conveniently contest against the person the governor wants to succeed him.
Deputy Governors are regarded as spare tyres. How true is this, from your experience?
The constitution does not assign any specific roles to the deputy governor. I have said it several times that the deputy governor is like a spare tyre. In most cases the governor respects a commissioner more than his deputy because he sees you as his rival who may want to take that seat. Of course, there is no how you are a deputy governor that you would not want to be a governor because you have all it takes to govern. You have been tested in one way or the other by being a deputy to the governor. That is why in most cases the governor won’t carry you along on many issues but he would discuss with the commissioners, especially when he is interested in the projects of a particular ministry. You, as deputy governor, won’t know what is happening, though it was discussed on the floor of the executive council meeting. Whether you contribute or you not, the governor will take a decision and his commissioners will succumb to his interests, even if it’s to the detriment of the state.
In most cases, the deputy governor is only sent to represent the governor on wedding occasions, condolence, to receive Ministers. You are denied of going to the Governors Forum meetings and the National Economic Council’s meeting. It is only the governor who attends such meetings and when he is not in town or he doesn’t attend the meetings, he will not assign his deputy to represent him. But let me be fair to my boss then, Governor Aliero, I was opportuned to represent the state in all aspects that the governor can represent his state. But that notwithstanding, the deputy governor is like a spare tyre.
How was your relationship with Aliero when he was directing the affairs of Kebbi State?
Our relationship was good. A deputy governor is expected to be absolutely loyal to the governor, but that notwithstanding, you should be firm and tell him the truth when the occasion arises. My relationship with him was very cordial. He appreciated me because I told him the truth no matter how bitter it would be to him. I would say to him I was sorry telling him this but it was the truth. He respected me as someone bold to always tell him the truth no matter how bitter it was. Of course, I wouldn’t do it publicly. I would find time whether in his office or his house to tell him whatever I wanted to tell him. He would know what I told him was the truth even if he didn’t take it. I believe we were co-pilots in the Kebbi ship.
Our relationship was very good to that extent despite other odds I faced with his ‘super commissioners’. I knew of commissioners who were stronger than me as deputy governor. Unfortunately for them, the governor could not hand over the state to them when he was leaving the state because it was either the governor or the deputy governor that could be admitted to such meetings of the Governors Forum and the National Economic Council. Otherwise, the ‘super commissioners’ would have gone there to represent the governor if allowed.
Our relationship was cordial up till the time the governor decided to defect to the PDP and I said I could not do that and we started having some challenges. I realised I would be at the receiving end so I decided to surprise him. I was sure if he knew I was going to resign he would not have allowed that to happen between us. But he knew I was bold and could not sell my integrity and honour for the sake of doing what he wanted me to do. So, I voluntarily resigned before he started waging war against me through the state assembly with a view to impeaching me.
Why did you refuse to go with your governor when it was obvious that he was moving the entire machinery of the ANPP in Kebbi to the PDP?
It was just based on principle. Secondly, I have never seen anything good in the PDP that would warrant me to leave those who elected me and move to the party. I had meetings with stakeholders in my constituency and it was agreed we had no reason moving to the PDP. Sadly, I had said it to the governor and all the state stakeholders in the last meeting we had before they moved to the party that if it was certainly good for us to be in one party, let the PDP come and join us in the ANPP. But the governor said that could not be done. I realised he had made up his mind to move to the PDP, maybe for fear of intimidation by the PDP-led federal government. I didn’t feel it was honourable for me and our supporters to go to the party with him. Based on my principle, integrity and considering the views of the electorate in my constituency, I decided not to follow him to the PDP.
Was the governor aware of your opposition to his defection plan to the PDP?
Yes, he was aware. I discussed this one on one with him. We also discussed this at the stakeholders meetings where majority held the view that since the governor wanted to move to the PDP, it was good for everybody to defect with him. At the meetings, I stood my ground that if we must be in one party let the PDP come and join us but when he said, “no, it could not be done,” I said, “well, that was my view.” He was aware I would not go to the PDP because even when they were going for the campaigns of the current governor of the state under the platform of the PDP, I did not go with them and I did not attend any of their meetings. So, it was glaring to the governor that I would not change my position.
Were you not afraid of the consequences of your opposition to the decision of the governor?
Despite the fact that the governor has powers, I also have my personal principles. If I had wanted to stay on I wouldn’t have resigned, which I knew would have resulted into crisis between us and he would eventually influence the House to impeach me. It happened in Bauchi when my former colleague under Governor Isa Yuguda refused to move with the governor to the PDP. He was impeached. So, I wouldn’t want to waste my time to fight a war I knew I would not win.
Moreover, I didn’t have the resources to fight the governor, not when the House of Assembly members were a stooge to him. They only did whatever the governor wanted, no matter how bad it was for the state. They didn’t care; whatever the governor wanted was what they wanted. Whether bad or not, they just danced to the tune of the governor. I wrote my letter of resignation two months before I resigned because I was optimistic that at the end of the day, since I had made up my mind not to go to the PDP, the governor would go for a showdown with me. I realised that exchange of words that was not happening between us had started happening at that time.
So, I made up my mind that the very day he left the ANPP for the PDP would be the very hour I would leave his government. And that was what happened. On 13 March 2007 when he made the declaration that he had left the ANPP for PDP, I forwarded my letter of resignation to him, the Speaker and the security agencies thanking them for the opportunity given to me to serve as deputy governor for two terms and I just quit.
What was the governor’s response?
Well, I wouldn’t know because we had not met after that for a long time. It actually pained him because as I said, if he knew I would quit he wouldn’t have allowed that to happen. During his first tenure, the then deputy governor allowed himself to be impeached for disagreeing with the party and his government so, I was elected in 2003. When I left on Friday, by Monday he had already sworn in another deputy governor. This showed that the governor was ready with a new deputy at hand to replace me. I realised all these and I wouldn’t allow myself to be impeached so I quickly resigned and went my way.
Did you ever consider the effect of this on your political fortune?
It would only add to my political fortune. Though to relinquish power is not easy, one has to be bold and principled. I had considered that we had only about three months to go in our second tenure so, for one who had served for two terms, all I had not got or done in four years as deputy governor, I wouldn’t achieve within the three months that was left for us to go. I felt it was better to resign and go with my name clean than be impeached or go against my own conscience and the desire of the electorate in my constituency.
When Gen Buhari was leaving the ANPP for the CPC, it was expected that you would go with him because of your closeness to him but you didn’t. What happened?
Well, like I said, I have my principles. When I resigned as deputy governor, I didn’t contact Buhari. I think he only read it in the newspapers that I had resigned voluntarily. Just like he has his own principles, I have mine too, though our principles are similar. That is why we have a cordial relationship till today. He respects me for what I am and I respect him for what he is.
I was aware of when the CPC was being formed, but I realised that political parties cannot just be formed like that. There must be some sponsors, you must have some money and there are so many other things it takes to succeed as a strong political party. Our plan at that time was that if things were not going well, we would just opt out of the ANPP under Ume Ezeoke (now deceased), get other opposition parties to merge with the CPC and form a formidable party. That was my desire. But when I realised they were going as a party and I believed they would not make any headway considering the circumstances, I knew there was no way I could go with the party. I went to tell Buhari my views about it. I said if they were going to contest elections under that party, they should count me out. So, I stayed back in my old party where I’m well known in my constituency.
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